Curse

LifeInfusion · Dec 15, 2010, 07:01 PM // 19:01

In today's world where SoS is run everywhere, the only use for 2 monks is hex heavy areas (D-Kiss heals for like 200+) and Party healing (Seed of Life, Divine Healing + Heaven's delight, Healing burst).

The backbone of a Restor rit

SoS rit has 3 spirits minimum + Bloodsong + Vampirism = 5 spirits commonly used
--> Add Life = 6 spirits. We have a total of 10 conditions and it is unlikely you will have more than 6.
--> (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, and Deep Wound)

* Mend Body and Soul = 96 at 12 Restoration, 109 at 14 (why run Dismiss other than for the paltry 80ish-90ish heal+DF)
* Spirit Light = 156 at 12 Restoration, 172 at 14 (Word of Healing heals 203 at 14 + DF, Burst heals 150+DF at 14)
* Soothing Memories = 82@ 12, 94 at 14
* Wielder's Boon = 51+63 @ 12, 57+71@ 14
* Rejuvenation
* Life (6-7 health * 20 seconds =120 to 140 part wide)
* Pure was Li Ming (partywide 3-4 condition removal)
* Weapon of Warding (10 energy un-strippable Guardian)
* Weapon of Shadow (newly buffed)

Why Healer's Boon fails

Here's why HB is terrible: PWK is on 25 cooldown for 10 energy. Glyph is on 30 cooldown and Heal Party is 15 energy. Glyph + Heal Party costs 10 energy and is effectively a 2 second cast since you need to Glyph it.

PWK at 14: 80 HP
Life at 14: 140 HP every 20 seconds
Heal Party at 14: 72 = 108 after HB

You can also pop Rejuvenation in between on the Restor rit (or use Feast of Souls or Spirit to Flesh) and if you run Spirit's Gift, you get an added nearby area heal. If you're lucky, your 40/40 set can reduce recharge on PwK. Glyphs never get recharge reduction. Both spirits are 10 energy, but can be subsidized by Spirit Channeling, spirit siphon, and/or Boon of Creation.

Single target heals

If you count single target heals @ 14 Healing prayers:
D-Kiss = 57+33 per hex/enchant = 86 + 50 per hex/enchant after HB --> with 2 hex/enchants heals 186+DF
Ethereal Light = 95 = 143 after HB + DF
Patient Spirit (same as Cure Hex) = (keep in mind it doesn't heal if stripped anymore)
Words of Comfort = 57+43 = 86+ 65 after HB
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 after HB (half range)
Orison = 67 = 101 after HB

Why this thread is in Ritualist forum
Why is this is the Ritualist forum? To remind you lot that if you have 2 Rits in a team and only one monk, you don't have to run damage. SoGM, ST are options too.

Bandwagon · Dec 15, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Old news, many rits with half a brain know this.

The problem is that pugs don't know this and short of adding a message on the login screen (even A-net doesn't use this feature to good effect), the average Pug will probably still insist on HB monks (UA has its place still since it can carry bads and the monk through missions).

Zodiac Meteor · Dec 15, 2010, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Ahem: Divine Favor.

Rits can heal, but the one of the reason's why people prefer monks is this attribute.
Orison = 67 = 101 + 32 = 132
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 + 32 = 176

Heal more, with less casting.

Add some UA with Arcane Mimicry and you have 100% more healing power.

FoxBat · Dec 15, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Swapping to resto rit is a ton better than spamming LFMonk, plus requiring only one attribute you can easily hybridize your builds. That doesn't make healer's boon inferior healing though. It doesn't help your case when you completely ignore the divine favor attribute.

Part of Healer's Boon's allure is the ability to drop two big party heals back-to-back. This is good for recovering from disasterous AoE hits moreso than constant degen. The rit can sortof handle this with sandbagged PwK but again, not quite as well. Life and rejuv are great at fighting degen over time, but don't fire off exactly when needed in those situations.

LifeInfusion · Dec 16, 2010, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Ahem: Divine Favor.

Rits can heal, but the one of the reason's why people prefer monks is this attribute.
Orison = 67 = 101 + 32 = 132
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 + 32 = 176

Heal more, with less casting.

Add some UA with Arcane Mimicry and you have 100% more healing power.

Heal party doesn't add DF. That's basically the only reason to run HB over Word/Burst.

15 energy = 11.25 seconds on 4 pips of regen , 15 seconds on a HB mimicry

I feel the main point of a Restor build is to spam Spirit Light (172heal). Mend Body and Soul is just for removing conditions. It's like D-Kiss/patient on a WoH bar. You don't want to use it that much.

Most monks you see with UA + HB (due to mimicry) end up with 0 energy and need regen between fights.

Regardless, with ST rit, PwK should be enough since hits will only be 10% max HP anyway. A ST rit + restor rit has enough protting power compared to UA + HB. The only downside is you can't run ST with a MM.

P.S. I forgot Patient Spirit's 114 --> 171 + DF after HB

Wenspire · Dec 16, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

DivFav bonus, Faster cast times (with HB) and Seed of Life are why I would rather have a monk healing in my party.

For heavy AoE/DoT damage areas, I wouldn't mind having a monk healing and a ShelterUnionDisp rit running protection/damage-reduction.

I just haven't been much of a fan of runnning a Restoration build. Tried it a few times on my ritualist and always felt that my monk did better in that role.

Wish Swiftdeath · Dec 18, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

As a monk I agree that Healers boon is trash and that restoration is better. However pugs only run HB because they are idiots.

Pure heal monks suck and always have, good monks will bring skills like protective spirit, shield of absorption and seed of life.

Sorry if I sounded abrupt but it's frustrated me to no end when I join a pug and they ask me to change to a build with five healing skills. In my opinion I think a resto rit and a UA prot monk (with heavens delight/divine healing) would be a more viable option for pugs...

superraptors · Dec 18, 2010, 04:54 AM // 04:54

healers boon is ran because of ease not because people are idiots, both has its advantages and synergy within a team... who doesnt want a 200+ heal hex removal? or an instant 120hp heal party, seed of life chuck that on a person taking damage, 200-300+heal party. protection monks arent ran anymore because everyone is using cons these days, simply there is no use for a prot monk in this state of pve, minus the cons and hardmode will require protting again.

i think alot of you are talking out of your arse saying rits are better. they are sub par healers only good for support

and many fights in pve dont last longer then 10 - 15 seconds energy is not a problem, if ur fights last longer then that then ur dmg is lacking, also many people run atleast 1 emanage skill wether it be glyph of lesser energy or pve skills

Wish Swiftdeath · Dec 18, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

I feel far more effective preventing damage than spamming 200+ hp heals on someone desperately trying to keep them up, it's just stupid.

Of course if you're using 5 consumables and have an imbagon then yeah, protting is useless, but i'd also wager that more than one healer is unnecessary too.

I like to PvP and most pugs don't have the idea of aggro control, most monks use HB AND UA (With arcane mimicry), then they spam heals, topping everyone off at 90% health and run out of energy within those 10-15 seconds. As a pvp monk I find it incredibly inefficient and annoying to be out of energy all the time and waiting between every battle. It's just gimping yourself, why do it?

Sure if you're new to monking and you aren't very good, you probably won't be very good with spells like SoA and RoF, using big heals is understandable in this case but that doesn't make them better.

Wenspire · Dec 18, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

ST with ShelterUnionDisp is much better than having ProtSpirit when the group cannot control agro. Having a partywide 10% max-damage cap (that cannot be stripped) is great. Displacement is pretty much a non-strippable Aegis (but with 75% block) for everyone. This is why I'd rather have a Rit protecting and Monk healing instead of the other way around.

But honestly, I'd rather be running my Monk as prot and wouldn't care who was healing. =)

Necromas · Dec 18, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Rit healers have two advantages.

They can more easily work in other offensive/utility skills and/or be necro primary for hax energy.

The AI plays them better.

A good player monk (whether or not they use healer's boon) can easily beat rit defense if they manage their skills and energy wisely. Except perhaps in certain situations where there's some specific team synergies or something about the mission makes rit skills particularly effective.

Disclaimer: PuG monks are often not good player monks and the popular monk builds are not the best ones.

A good hero monk can probably beat a hero rit's defense but they are more likely to screw up (using prots when they should heal, using conditional skills when the conditions aren't meant, and just being bad at energy conservation), and with hero based teams it's more useful to have healers with some offense/utility rather than just dedicating themselves to defense like a monk pretty much has to.

LifeInfusion · Dec 19, 2010, 06:33 PM // 18:33

See: http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8108/uahb.png , http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3...bhealparty.png

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...1&d=1292782373

14 DF spec gets you 89 on DH/HD, 14 spec heal gets you 108 Heal party.

111 Heal party with 14 Heal 13DF and UA.

Premium Unleaded · Dec 19, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

You'd be surprised at the number of players in the game that can't even manage to run the ST bar properly; they don't know how to priortise spirits, they don't know you should not put the spirits inside aggro range unless unavoidable, but worst of all, they don't know that the whole point of running it is that you maintain the spirits - or at least the most pertinent one(s) if not all of them - during combat.

LifeInfusion · Dec 20, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

My ST hero needs minimal micro. It's a stupid bar that I would never play as a player.

Boon of creation (optional)-->ST--> Shelter--> union ---> Displacement--> Armor of unfeeling
2-3 optionals.

If someone can't 1-2-3-4-5-6 and pop a spirit when it goes down they deserve to be shot with Magebane to the face. And ST has instant recharge so that wouldn't do much.

Ghull Ka · Dec 22, 2010, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I really enjoy reading conversations like this, it's nice to see informed people talking about the nuts-and-bolts of the game.

I do think, though, that Seed of Life's prevalence (usefulness?) and basic overpowered-ness makes it hard to replace a Monk with a Rit in your basic pug situation. People want to hedge their bets with overpowered goodness, even though something less flashy will get the job done.

phan · Dec 22, 2010, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

My ST hero needs minimal micro. It's a stupid bar that I would never play as a player.

Boon of creation (optional)-->ST--> Shelter--> union ---> Displacement--> Armor of unfeeling
2-3 optionals.

If someone can't 1-2-3-4-5-6 and pop a spirit when it goes down they deserve to be shot with Magebane to the face. And ST has instant recharge so that wouldn't do much.

You put displacement before shelter before union. What's the point if you're going to use 1 hit on shelter and union if you have a 75% chance the attack will be negated anyways.

AndroBubbles · Dec 28, 2010, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

healers boon is ran because of ease not because people are idiots, both has its advantages and synergy within a team... who doesnt want a 200+ heal hex removal? or an instant 120hp heal party, seed of life chuck that on a person taking damage, 200-300+heal party. protection monks arent ran anymore because everyone is using cons these days, simply there is no use for a prot monk in this state of pve, minus the cons and hardmode will require protting again.

i think alot of you are talking out of your arse saying rits are better. they are sub par healers only good for support

and many fights in pve dont last longer then 10 - 15 seconds energy is not a problem, if ur fights last longer then that then ur dmg is lacking, also many people run atleast 1 emanage skill wether it be glyph of lesser energy or pve skills

It's number crunching time!

Let's say for example that you have a minion master and an SoS rit on your team, and you are solo healing as a restoration ritualist for an 8 man team in some random mission. Now, I don't know what the meta resto build is, but I usually run spirit channeling with recuperation+life+mend body+spirit light; the rest are optional. Now, with these five skills I get a ridiculous number of effects while getting an equally ridiculous amount of synergy with my team.

Explanation: Recuperation at 14: +3 regen for 43 seconds. That's 6 health per second on as many non-spirit allies as you can fit in range of the spirit. That's 6x43=258 health. Multiply that by the 8 allies you have in your party to get about 2064 health from one skill, or about 5 energy for a maintenance heal of more than 400 with no elite slot. Add in 10 minions and any possible allies in range and your potential healing jumps to more than 4600.

Let's try the same calculations with Life: 8 allies at 14 restoration=1120 health for 10 energy. Add in at least 10 allies and you get more than 2500.

As a restoration ritualist, you probably have Mend Body+Soul, so your condition-removing power is almost unmatched, and Spirit Light is one of the strongest targeted heals in the game, considering its energy cost and the fact that it's non-elite. Its condition is easily met and the actual healing doesn't have any requirements, unlike Dwayna's Kiss. Ritualists are hardly sub-par when it comes to healing; it's just that idiots like you tend to fail when it comes to taking numbers and tactics into account.

Wenspire · Dec 28, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Nearly any type of healing class/build can keep a party alive when you have a minion master and sos in it. There's just too much damage mitigation from minions/spirits to require much healing to be needed.

I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill.

AndroBubbles · Dec 28, 2010, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Nearly any type of healing class/build can keep a party alive when you have a minion master and sos in it. There's just too much damage mitigation from minions/spirits to require much healing to be needed.

I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill.

Yes, but this is where restoration ritualists shine as well. Their spot heals are extremely powerful, so they can afford to bring such huge party maintenance skills. You'd have to get at least 2 enchantments/hexes on your target just to match the healing from spirit light with dwayna's kiss, and that's with healer's boon. The unconditional raw healing I can get from a restoration ritualist easily matches a monk when used correctly, even if that monk has HB or UA, and even then I can still split attributes to further assist my party. I also get condition removal in the same attribute, allowing for further bar compression. Monks have a huge advantage when it comes to preprotting, since shelter is sometimes a bit tricky to work with PuGs, but I've yet to see a viable argument against the healing/support capabilities of a ritualist.

LifeInfusion · Dec 28, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

On my monk I explicitly run GIft of Health @10 with UA @ 16 , DH/HD just so I don't feel intimidated by Restoration magic. You can't pop a 90-103 party heal on a Restor rit every 7.5 seconds, Seed for +28-32s, strip up to 4 hexes (Deny hexes on UA+DH+HD), AND res instantly.